Curse

Trvth Jvstice · Mar 03, 2008, 02:08 AM // 02:08

I've been using SS on my curse necro for quite a while, thinking it is the absolute best, highest dmg, most productive skill available for a curse Necro. But, in a recent thread about Spiteful Spirit, Ensign said this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

I've been playing this curse bar:

Barbs, Enfeebling Blood, Blood Ritual, Spiteful Spirit, Rend Enchantments / Putrid Explosion / Whatever, "Finish Him!", "You Move Like a Dwarf!", Necrosis.

Spiteful Spirit is generally the worst skill in the bar, but there's nothing I'd rather bring so w/e.

I've been reading GWG for quite a while, long before I became a member and I've always accepted Ensign's posts as fact, still do. But, his opinion about SS really has me puzzled. Other than Enfeebling Blood, I've always thought SS was the end all, beat all, best dmg dealer for a curse Necro. In the linked thread I asked Ensign to elaborate on his opinion about the usefulness of SS. He hasn't answered yet, so I'd like to know what the rest of you think about SS and why it is or isn't one of the best skills for a curse Necro.

Kiasyd117 · Mar 03, 2008, 02:21 AM // 02:21

Well if you are looking for raw power then Feast of Corruption is the way to go but the recharge and a 2 second cast is rather blahzors.

But no you are not wrong SS is the must cap skill from the curses line, and despite a slew of new skills has yet to be rivaled. Wither is getting a small bit of traction with its mechanics change but probably won't surpass SS anytime soon.

Calista Blackblood · Mar 03, 2008, 02:28 AM // 02:28

assassins promise, you wont look back

Trvth Jvstice · Mar 03, 2008, 02:35 AM // 02:35

I just capped Assassin's Promise today. I haven't tried it yet, but it seems more suitable for a Death Necro. I think Carnae, or Moloch Vein posted a build using this skill recently. I'll look into it, thx.

Calista Blackblood · Mar 03, 2008, 02:54 AM // 02:54

was moloch

i started using AP and SS is kinda tossed to the side now

Trvth Jvstice · Mar 03, 2008, 03:08 AM // 03:08

@ Livia, If I remember the build correctly, I assume you're using Mark of Pain, which does more AoE dmg than SS, but requires the Warriors to attack your calls. Assassins Promise is a perfect companion for Mark of Pain no doubt there. Unfortunately most PUGs, who have no idea the amount of dmg a curse Necro can do, wonders "WTF, why is the nec calling his attacks?" Of course this doesn't take anything away from the great combination of these two skills, I just need to be more informative about the way this skill works when playing with a PUG--wish me luck there lol.

Monk Gsb · Mar 03, 2008, 03:11 AM // 03:11

just use a mm and instead of you calling where ur putting it, see where there attacking and put it on them.

Racthoh · Mar 03, 2008, 05:43 AM // 05:43

Spiteful Spirit is generally used on the target you're going to kill last, the smallest priority of the group, the physicals. The same targets you're hitting with Enfeebling Blood, the same enemies that are swinging into Aegis. The only useful contribution Spiteful Spirit has is that it occasionally draws a heal away from the target that your physicals are beating on.

If Spiteful Spirit is ever killing anything on its own it becomes a clear sign that your group lacks focused fire. It rarely contributes damage against the targets that pose a threat against your party. If you look at the bar Ensign uses you will notice how many of his skills contribute towards bringing down a single target. This is because the vast majority of PvE mobs have maybe 1-2 enemies that pose some sort of threat to the group and need to be killed immediately. Once that enemy is dead, provided you have tools like Enfeebling Blood, picking off the rest of the group can be done at your leisure.

Carinae · Mar 03, 2008, 06:05 AM // 06:05

Agreed. Spiteful generally goes on targets that attack fast, or deals multiple attacks. For example: Sins, Swords and Barragers. However, priority situations arise where multiple monsters clump up, usually multiple physicals, and in that situation you try to drop it on that group for maximum effect. Even then, it isn't the killing spell, it just pressures the opposing mob. In fact, that is your explicit purpose with SS, to apply pressure. When you understand that point, the targeting of SS becomes obvious on the field.

Enfeebling Blood is the opposite. It reduced pressure. Typically, it always goes to Hammer Warriors first, then Axe guys. However, it really goes on any physical that's putting the squeeze on your party.

Reckless Haste is a combo effect. It works well on the same target as SS, but it also is a substitute for EB in a pinch...if EB is still recharging, for example.

odly · Mar 03, 2008, 06:27 AM // 06:27

Don't put SS on the called target. If you're putting SS on the target you're taking down you're doing it wrong.

Calista Blackblood · Mar 03, 2008, 09:17 AM // 09:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trvth Jvstice

@ Livia, If I remember the build correctly, I assume you're using Mark of Pain, which does more AoE dmg than SS, but requires the Warriors to attack your calls. Assassins Promise is a perfect companion for Mark of Pain no doubt there. Unfortunately most PUGs, who have no idea the amount of dmg a curse Necro can do, wonders "WTF, why is the nec calling his attacks?" Of course this doesn't take anything away from the great combination of these two skills, I just need to be more informative about the way this skill works when playing with a PUG--wish me luck there lol.

yep [skill]Assassin's Promise[/skill][skill]Mark of Pain[/skill]
its usually ok, i rarely pug due to the dire quality of randoms,ive been with some in the past that didnt even know elites existed.one even asked me why i was using daggers

heros on the other hand are generally pretty dumb but do manage eventually to attack what i call

if youve got the party dmg to take the called down quickly you can generally rinse and repeat on another target maybe 2 or 3 times before SS on a backliner recharges

upier · Mar 03, 2008, 10:42 AM // 10:42

My curser mostly runs [skill]Divert Hexes[/skill] as his elite (unless I KNOW there will be no hexes thrown around).
Why?
Because I don't solo the game.

Calista Blackblood · Mar 03, 2008, 11:13 AM // 11:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

My curser mostly runs [skill]Divert Hexes[/skill] as his elite (unless I KNOW there will be no hexes thrown around).
Why?
Because I don't solo the game.

almost if not totally a waste of an elite slot :S

upier · Mar 03, 2008, 11:43 AM // 11:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livia Dagger Rage

almost if not totally a waste of an elite slot :S

4+ physical damage dealers.
You think [skill]Remove Hex[/skill] is enough?
Plus it's a monk skill - and a protection one at that - which means that the character with unlimited energy has access to [skill]Aegis[/skill], condition removal and [skill]Protective Spirit[/skill].

Sorry but like I mentioned - my necro build has 8 party slots.

That's why I don't waste them on SS.

voidvector · Mar 03, 2008, 11:45 AM // 11:45

I would have to agree with OP and most other posters here. SS is overrated.

Other than for farming (that calls for special team combos), SS is not a great skill for a damage elite. Against most mobs, it can easily be out damaged by ele AOE which has shorter cooldown, shorter cast time, more direct impact, and not as enemy dependent.

In many tough areas, Enfeeble and Price of Failure is actually more important in a curse build than than SS, because it is more important to preventing damage than to do damage.

Against bosses, SS usually does very well, but it is outshone here by Spoil Victor.

blue.rellik · Mar 03, 2008, 11:46 AM // 11:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livia Dagger Rage

almost if not totally a waste of an elite slot :S

It's a niche elite and does its job well

Calista Blackblood · Mar 03, 2008, 11:46 AM // 11:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

4+ physical damage dealers.
You think [skill]Remove Hex[/skill] is enough?
Plus it's a monk skill - and a protection one at that - which means that the character with unlimited energy has access to [skill]Aegis[/skill], condition removal and [skill]Protective Spirit[/skill].

Sorry but like I mentioned - my necro build has 8 party slots.

That's why I don't waste them on SS.

sounds like you wanna be a monk :P but it does prove that your not gonna get a life sentence for not running SS

upier · Mar 03, 2008, 12:37 PM // 12:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livia Dagger Rage

sounds like you wanna be a monk :P but it does prove that your not gonna get a life sentence for not running SS

It's not about playing monk. It's about abusing what are overpowered skills in PvE. And considering how PvE is being played - the monk has it's share of those skills.
Plus the thing is that SR is overpowered if you have 13 in it or if you only have 10.
So the necro can actually afford them.

(This would be a different story IF the monky heroes would bring condition and hex removal ... but as long as Alesia spams that Orison - she needs a bit of help ...

)

And yeah - it is an overkill a lot of the times. The thing is - once one surpasses the AI - pretty much everything is. But one still does not need to lower oneself to the stupidity that is the AI.

Calista Blackblood · Mar 03, 2008, 12:58 PM // 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

It's not about playing monk.

was kidding

necros can pretty much fill any position in the party quite happily

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

It's about abusing what are overpowered skills in PvE. And considering how PvE is being played - the monk has it's share of those skills.

pvp'ers abuse skills all the time, might as well do it in pve too

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Plus the thing is that SR is overpowered if you have 13 in it or if you only have 10.
So the necro can actually afford them.

overpowered even post nerf, anet will happily maul SR with the nerfbat when they see fit

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

to the stupidity that is the AI.

QFT,this made my day,expecially applies to heros

Ensign · Mar 04, 2008, 07:45 AM // 07:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

If Spiteful Spirit is ever killing anything on its own it becomes a clear sign that your group lacks focused fire.

If it's killing targets regularly during time frames that matter (I.E., it doesn't just happen to get the last damage trigger on the last enemy of a mob) then yeah, your team has a damage problem. During a typical mob encounter it shouldn't be doing anything that will affect the outcome of the fight.

If things aren't going well; if you run into a mob you can't crack immediately, or you take a death or two, or otherwise stumble against a mob, Spiteful Spirit gets a chance to go crazy and dish out a lot of damage. It doesn't do any encounter-changing jobs, but the raw power of the skill makes it attractive. That it's a skill that really excels when things are going badly is the main reason why I think it's worth a slot on your bar.